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Karl Sieber
World Class
United Kingdom
507 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Apr 2012 : 18:55:58
So the ball gets deflected or rebounds off the post. The loose ball ends up near the edge of the pitch. You chase after it but can't quite collect it cleanly or save it before it goes out of play. Intead you tap it towards the legs/body of your opponent, resulting in them getting the last touch before it gets out of play.What should the call be? I've seen mixed responses from refs this season. Some have penalised the player doing it, claiming that they are throwing it deliberately at the opponent and calling it unsporting. Others have allowed it and played on, giving a throw in following the ball bouncing off the opponent and out of play. Ethically I think its fair play as long as the ball isn't thrown/tapped towards the opponent with any malicious intent. What do the rules say? Edited by - Karl Sieber on 01 Apr 2012 18:56:23
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Jam
World Class
United Kingdom
1179 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2012 : 21:47:18
I would say it's a valid thing to do, las long as it's not too hard / at their face. Used to do it a lot in basketball but not seen it so often in korfball.
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Taff
Star Player
United Kingdom
499 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2012 : 14:31:02
It's against the rules in Rugby league (you lose the ball), but not union. It's a common tactic in basketball and football. Don't know about Handball or Netball but I'd assume it's ok. It's allowed in Korfball as far as I know - but I'd always assumed the 'misbehaviour' rule would overrule it. Presumably Karl, the ref booked/warned the player he penalised, such as you would expect him to do if the ball was thrown deliberately at an opponent during normal play? If not, I don't see the justification for penalising him.Cardiff Dragons http://www.cardiffdragons.co.uk |
Karl Sieber
World Class
United Kingdom
507 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2012 : 15:31:01
No, no booking. Just a vague "erm that's not really allowed" followed by a restart to the player the ball struck.
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koosh
World Class
United Kingdom
739 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2012 : 15:38:34
My view, based on the rules as I interpret them:The referee should firstly judge if the action could be considered dangerous, and if so, then he/she should penalise the player who threw/hit/palmed the ball dangerously at their opponent. If the ball was directed hard from point blank range at the face or head then it should be blown for dangerous play with a red card (code: PP7). If the ball was directed hard from point blank range not at the face or head at a speed likely to hurt the other player then it should be blown for dangerous play with a possible yellow card (possibly under code PP7 or PG3). If the play was not considered dangerous then depending on where the ball struck the other player, then either a restart for "football" or an out-ball should be awarded to the player-who-threw-the-ball-in-the-first-place's team. This might not be a trivial difference; it can determine whether or not the shot-clock is reset. That is my reading of the current rules and I think it is definitely an area of the game that needs official clarification. -----------------------
http://www.mitchamkorfball.co.uk
http://www.highburykorfball.com |
Taff
Star Player
United Kingdom
499 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2012 : 17:05:06
Gotta say then Karl, the ref was in the wrong. Hopefully Graham will be along to clarify, but yeah, I'd be annoyed if I was the player penalised. It takes a fair bit of skill (and agility) to save a ball that's going out, and win it back for your team, without endangering anyone else. To then have the ref just hand it back to the opposition would be a bit rubbish.Still, that sort of thing is not exactly without precedent - I remember when rugby union teams started lifting players until their hands were above the level of the crossbar and catching penalties before they went over. No small amount of skill involved there, but outlawed as soon as it caught on... Cardiff Dragons http://www.cardiffdragons.co.uk |
Pirate John
First Team
69 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2012 : 18:58:56
As a ref I would try and discourage people from aiming a ball at others to gain an advantage whatever the tecnicalities. It's not that kind of sport. So it would have to look accidental to me.
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Laurie
Star Player
United Kingdom
399 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2012 : 20:12:45
As a ref then Pirate John, what would you penalise them for? There's nothing in the rules unless it is dangerous, except giving a yellow card for bad sportsmanship.----------------------------
Supernova Korfball Club - Central London's Korfball Club
Training every Wednesday, near Waterloo Station
http://www.supernova.org.uk |
Karl Sieber
World Class
United Kingdom
507 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2012 : 22:13:23
Rule 47b: Not playing nice and fwendly. Obviously! In all seriousness I find the attitude of "don't do it because its not in the spirit of the game" a bit frustrating. The spirit of the game is about fair, but hard fought competition. As long as the play discussed isn't carried out with any intent to harm the opponent I think it should be viewed as a skilled use of athleticism and tactical awareness. Do we really want to punish that?
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kev_moss
Star Player
United Kingdom
136 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2012 : 11:12:23
I agree with most on this topic.As long as it isnt done maliciously i.e. aimed at face then there is no issue. Korfball is a competitive sport and I see it as a viable move to keep the ball. Im not going to get started in the "spirit of the game" discussion. What is interesting is only a few weeks ago I saw a player react to having the ball thrown at his legs by dropping his shoulder and giving the player a good whack with it whilst walking past. If i was reffing I would have yellow carded the player. Instead the ref responded with a more diplomatic response of calming down both players. If the infringement had been blown up originally then there wouldnt have been any conflict! Kev Moss www.kidskorf.co.uk |
Big Al
World Class
New Zealand
1149 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2012 : 12:55:09
As a rebounder I have been in this situation several times. I have never had a ref in the National League give the ball to the opposition following a tap of the ball onto the opposing player before it goes out of play. In fact, I would hope it is a sign of skill. It is a bit similar to football where defenders/attackers will try and get a corner/goalkick.If it is danagerous say - intentionally thrown at speed at one's face - I can see the argument to support the ref in reversing the decision- but to be honest that would be rare if someone was trying to hit someone's face. I am not surprised that a ref a lower level would reverse this decision. The game is meant to be competitive and fair - but one should play with the rules as oppposed to making them up. 
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Knocking the ball into your opponent
