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Karl Sieber
World Class


United Kingdom
502 Posts
Posted - 06 Mar 2012 :  11:07:11  Show Profile  Visit Karl Sieber's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi all. I've been thinking about running a small tournament, possibly two this year that experiment with the rules of the sport a bit just to see what effect it has on the game. I just wanted to put the ideas out there to determine what level of interest there would be before I start putting things in motion. I'll list some of the ideas I have and it'd be great to get some feedback. This will of course be in addition to rather than replacing the always popular Broadstairs Beach tournament in August!

Experiment 1 - No halfway line, standard pitch size, 5 vs 5, players needing to play both attack and defence, unlimited subs. All other rules the same. Open to any team.

Experiment 2 - No rebound block. Any rebound obtained by doing the block would be blown as an offence in a similar fashion to the cutting rule. The idea being to encourage tactical creativity and athleticism e.g. run-on collects, hard drives to the post prior to shots going up etc. Open to teams at top local league division and above - I'm interested in seeing what the more skilled and tactically sophisticated players would do if we take this option away, no point banning a move that newer/less experienced teams might not be using yet anyway.

Experiment 3 - Change to the scoring system - 2 points for a goal within a two metre radius of the post, 2 points for a long range goal (maybe 9-10m out), 1 point for everything else. The idea of this being that spectators like it when people score big longshots or burn past their defenders for short range opportunities (or mug them off at the post for something cheeky). All other rules the same. Open to everyone.

I'm sure I'll get a bit of flak from people accusing me of wanting to make the sport like basketball, but that's not where I'm going. I think the core identity of the sport is dependent on the defending rule to encourage participation for people of all shapes and sizes and the mixed gender element. I don't feel there's any harm in taking those core features and seeing if we can do something a bit different with them.

So let me know what you think. I'm also open to different rule change ideas if people have any.

steve
World Class


United Kingdom
945 Posts
Posted - 06 Mar 2012 :  11:34:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
karl i like alot of this and its something that needs doing.

i didnt like the 2 point shooting line when it was tried at the korfball challenge a few years ago but that was because it was just to easy for the dutch boys whereas i thik it would be something that could improve english korfball as teams look to improve there long shooting which in turn would lead to teams having to defend tighter then leading to players attacking more in a 1 on 1 dual.

the block that you talk about is not used to obtain the rebound.
when it was first used it was because teams where so good at front defence noone could ever get a feed,now they just walk up to the collector and its there. the colector then walks around becuase at the top level if the feed is inplace the defence tries to take away the collect so its a simple way of getting both now.

ive seen alot of korfball this year from different contries and the block is only slow in england and im of the view that this is only because the shooting is poor so teams drop off and mess the block up.

in holland if your 1/2cm out of position it cost you a goal or a pen so defenders just get in a 1 on 1 defending postion the whole time

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Sam_S
World Class



677 Posts
Posted - 06 Mar 2012 :  12:56:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I certainly like the idea of experimenting with the rules and I'd love to try some new things out at a tournament.

For your three variants listed:

1. Not for me, but some people might like it!

2. A good idea but might be hard to implement. Players quite often "run a block" to get a good position but without resorting to the slow walking move you're talking about. I'd love to try this out but you'd need to think about it carefully to avoid the inevitable rules lawyers... ;)

3. I'd like to try this one. I'm not 100% sold on changing the scoring system but thats the whole point of doing something like this... :)

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Will
First Team


United Kingdom
65 Posts
Posted - 06 Mar 2012 :  14:14:24  Show Profile  Visit Will's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Really like option 1, a great fitness option as well.

2 is interesting, as has been said already, you'll have to be tight on the rules.

3 is again, interesting, the Saint Andrews Beach tournament usually has a '2pointer from the corner' rule, but that's quite different. It does encourage big crowd-pleasing shots, but it's especially hard when the wind is up...
Marking out the '2point' areas would be the main challenge, otherwise it sounds good to me.

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koosh
World Class


United Kingdom
739 Posts
Posted - 06 Mar 2012 :  14:49:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In principle I think the idea of introducing experimental rule variants into tournaments and one-off leagues is a good one. Softball tournaments often play with rule variants to keep the calendar varied and fun.

In my view, the important thing to think about at this stage is how to implement the rule variation in a way that's clear to players, coaches and referees, and leaves no doubt as to how the rule should be applied. The sorts of questions you should be asking are (taking your Experiment 1 as an example) "How should a 5x5 team be composed? 3 male and 2 female players? If not, how should gender-specific defending work?"

Usually, though (going back to the softball world again), rule variations are applied with fun in mind, rather than any serious ambition to contribute to the evolution of the official rules. A common (and popular) variant in the softball season is a single-sex tournament; instead of the usual mixed-gender teams, separate men's and women's tournaments are played side-by-side. I think a single-sex tournament would be a very interesting addition to the korfball calendar as well.

In principle, though, absolutely! Do it! If you're on the organising committee for a tournament I honestly see no reason why you can't play a variant on the rules. If it's popular in principle then teams will "vote with their feet" (i.e. you'll see it reflected in the number of entry forms you receive).

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koosh
World Class


United Kingdom
739 Posts
Posted - 06 Mar 2012 :  14:58:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

Marking out the '2point' areas would be the main challenge, otherwise it sounds good to me.


There's a type of spray-paint used by surveyors, excavators and landscape gardeners to make temporary markings. I think you can buy different versions of it, some more permanent than others.

Six cans of that, a 9m piece of string, a 2m piece of string and a local council that doesn't mind you drawing temporary lines on their park should do the trick!

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Karl Sieber
World Class


United Kingdom
502 Posts
Posted - 06 Mar 2012 :  17:07:26  Show Profile  Visit Karl Sieber's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the input guys. Keep it coming!

Gav - Any chance you can do me a poll so I can get a quick snapshot of which variant people are most interested in?

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Gav
Korfball.com


United Kingdom
3713 Posts
Posted - 06 Mar 2012 :  17:19:01  Show Profile  Visit Gav's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Here you go:
http://www.korfball.com/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=5593


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gbox
Squad Player



23 Posts
Posted - 06 Mar 2012 :  17:27:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Karl

Really good idea.

I saw that in Holland, they had a 1 v 1 competition - there is a clip online somewhere. I think that could be really competitive.

Equally, you could have some part of the day for a 2v2 competition, one boy and one girl per team. Who is the strongest pairing in British korfball?

Graham

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Karl Sieber
World Class


United Kingdom
502 Posts
Posted - 06 Mar 2012 :  21:30:37  Show Profile  Visit Karl Sieber's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Regarding the team composition for the 5 on 5 I thought the best way to handle it was to leave it down to individual team choice but keep the rules about same-sex defending the same. E.g. Team A could have 4 guys and 1 girl on the team if they wanted, but against a more balanced Team B of 3 girls and 2 guys they might struggle to defend the ladies effectively. Although I guess it would cut both ways and be hard for Team B to defend the men too. I figure that opens up lots of tactical possibilities.

An alternative option if people don't like that idea is to force teams to field 2m and 3f or 3f and 2m, but I'm not sure how you'd justify changing the rules to make teams more male or female dominant. I don't really want to go to 4 vs 4 or 6 vs 6 because I think 4 vs 4 would be too demanding on the individual players and limit how many people could get involved, and 6 vs 6 would cram the division with too many people and make the games too chaotic.

Edited by - Karl Sieber on 06 Mar 2012 21:32:36Go to Top of Page

Marc
KorfballWorld.com


Netherlands
1753 Posts
Posted - 07 Mar 2012 :  01:19:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As I write in the poll topic, removing the middle line has a major impact on the game. In case you are unaware of it, the youngest players in the The Netherlands play one zone korfball, 4 against 4. The intention of the KNKV is to pull this through on a wide scale until the U16 age group. There is huge resistance agains this, and rightly so. It totally removes the element on 'getting right of attack' and giving a certain challenge in the balance of the attack and defence, that you might as well call it the basketball you are making it. For me, people that want to play this competitively and call it 'korfball'... I have no words for it.

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